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I recently found out about a fantastic piece of software called LiberKey - which is a portable application management suite pacakged with alot of great and free portable packages.

The main advantage to LiberKey is that they centralize auto-updating of these packages.

Since at least 50% of the tools used by TC UP are also supported (with auto-updating) in LiberKey, and LiberKey also includes a portable solution to File Type Association and URI activation, they both look like a match made in heaven.

LiberKey.com is the home of the software - which is based in France, the forum is in French, but using Google Translator I managed to get-by.

Take a look and see if you like it.

I would really love to see the two products work together...

Truly Yours
Lockszmith (Gal Szkolnik)
2Lockszmith
This is truly nice suite but has one, big disadvantage for TC UP: too much tools.

If Ultima had to agree to get it he would have to ask all authors (200 for biggest package) for agreements to include their software within TC UP. This is "no go" IMHO.
2 fenixproductions:

regarding permissions - you are right, that's why I suggested an integration to LiberKey instead of a bundle - what I mean:

LiberKey does it's work quite good - auto-updates, simple auto-install/add from their web site.
They provide different pre-packed bundles...

If TCUP would integrate with LiberKey - great tools that are used in TCUP would be auto-updated all the time.

I am thinking of more a split between TCUP in "Full" and "LiberKey" mode.

One of the things I really like about LiberKey is their File Association software which setup temporary program association with it's software - which is better then any installation software that locks into a system.

Again, I agree that integrating LiberKey into TCUP would be tough but creating a "merger/cooperation" mode would be better on both projects, I think.

Again, it's a suggestion - wishfull thinking - from a free software enthusiast with an optimistic view :-)

Truly Yours
Gal Szkolnik (Lockszmith)
(08-20-2009, 08:58 AM)Lockszmith Wrote: [ -> ]I am thinking of more a split between TCUP in "Full" and "LiberKey" mode.

Care to elaborate?

(08-20-2009, 08:58 AM)Lockszmith Wrote: [ -> ]One of the things I really like about LiberKey is their File Association software which setup temporary program association with it's software - which is better then any installation software that locks into a system.

You didn't look at TC 7.5 betas (now RC1), didn't you. It also looks like you don't even have newest version of TC UP with TC 7.50pb8.

Next TC version will offer "internal associations" system which allows to specify your own files types handling within Total Commander window. I doubt any other software has it implemented in such wide way as TC.

Small info here (5th paragraph):
http://tcup.eu/forum/showthread.php?tid=610
(08-20-2009, 09:19 AM)fenixproductions Wrote: [ -> ]Care to elaborate?

As you previously mentioned, getting permission from all application developers to include in a bundled download is a high price to pay.
But if TCUP get's these application (with automatic updates and portable file association) from LiberKey, maybe requesting LiberKey to create a TCUP bundle alongside the Basic/Expert/Ultimate packs they already have would make it easier for TCUP to be maintained, and will expose more users to LiberKey - a win-win situation for both sides.

It would require Ultima to "let go" of certain aspects of his software and to cooperate with another group, but it would create a better TCUP product.

As you can see I am a big fan for co-operation of software.

(08-20-2009, 09:19 AM)fenixproductions Wrote: [ -> ]You didn't look at TC 7.5 betas (now RC1), didn't you. It also looks like you don't even have newest version of TC UP with TC 7.50pb8.

Next TC version will offer "internal associations" system which allows to specify your own files types handling within Total Commander window. I doubt any other software has it implemented in such wide way as TC.

I've actually upgraded a week ago to the latest TCUP which includes TC7.50pb8 and it reminds me why I like TC and TCUP so much (I am proud paying customer of TC, and can't see myself work without it).
This version has a lot of enhancements I like.

As to the file associations - that's a good idea, but the difference with an "internal association" scheme - and a temporary system wide "scheme" is still far-and-wide.

Making TC or TCUP totally portable, means that when the portable environment is plugged in, it should be associated, but when plugged out - the system should not be affected.

This is exactly what LiberKey does very-very good.

TCUP is the best bundle for file and system management, and LiberKey does a fantastic job in portabilization ( if such a word existsSmile )in term of system integration (temporary) and update management.

Merging these two together will create a very powerful mix of software.

Thanks for dialogue Smile

Truly Yours
Gal Szkolnik (Lockszmith)
2Lockszmith
I really appreciate your intentions but I am still against:

1. One of TC UP goals was to never get over 100MB. Adding LibertyKey would mean additional overload (50-197MB) which definitely could bring complains about the size across Internet (there are such voices already) definitely.

2. Many LK applications duplicate functionality already existing in TC UP set of tools or TC itself.

3. Licensing is always a problem and GPLed software is almost impossible to obtain in most of the cases:
- big applications require to ask either all developers or the one responsible for project who is holding all rights for it - i.e. it was impossible to even get to know whom should we ask for AbiWord. All information we've got was "Ask the layer". We can't afford to do that.
- we are not sure can we offer such software together with TC due to GPL "mystery",
- I don't know would it force Ultima to make his installer code open (he is against it).

Please, also consider the fact, that Ultima does not care about online statements and he wants to have all agreements written personally. It might be stupid for few tools but this is health way of doing things IMHO. Keeping that in mind you can find that some tools should be thrown away because they are no longer developed or their authors simply ignores "peons" (ask Microsoft for Autoruns). Seriously: I am always in doubt that all "packs" available on Internet follow licences properly.

We don't simply want any doubts. We want completely legal pack of tools which will not be taken down neither by Christian Ghisler nor anyone else.

4. We'd like to have the best tools available instead of putting in anything possible. We don't need (i.e.) couple of audio converting tools if we have nice plugin for that and we also know that AIMP can provide such functionality. We don't also want to use crippled versions of commercial software (i.e. Essential PIM).

5. Finally: we want portable software and some LK tools are out of the place. Take a look on Paint.NET. I am using it and I can always say how great it is but saying it is portable would be a lie. It requires .NET framework 3.5 SP1 (IIRC). Many people have installed it but many don't.


This is my personal opinion but I think that "letting go" is a bad habit. I know that sometimes it may be good but most of the cases I saw was not. You don't set the rules if you ever consider breaking them. Putting rules away means that you are not reliable in any matter for me. But, as I said, this is my own opinion Smile
(08-20-2009, 10:16 AM)Lockszmith Wrote: [ -> ]As to the file associations - that's a good idea, but the difference with an "internal association" scheme - and a temporary system wide "scheme" is still far-and-wide.

Making TC or TCUP totally portable, means that when the portable environment is plugged in, it should be associated, but when plugged out - the system should not be affected.

This is exactly what LiberKey does very-very good.

It's a bit off topic, but I disagree with you here. I find the LiberKey way of doing stuff very dangerous. One mistake and you totally destroy host associations system, which will usually lead to necessity of system reinstall.

Also:
-It requires rights that you might not be given
-2 LiberKey suites (or similar!) opened at the time=huge mess
(08-21-2009, 05:38 PM)m^2 Wrote: [ -> ]I find the LiberKey way of doing stuff very dangerous.
I must admit I did not check how does it work. Do you mean that it does not intercept ShellExecute but i.e. creates registry entries temporarily? If yes then I must agree with you (and throw it away).
(08-21-2009, 10:12 PM)fenixproductions Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-21-2009, 05:38 PM)m^2 Wrote: [ -> ]I find the LiberKey way of doing stuff very dangerous.
I must admit I did not check how does it work. Do you mean that it does not intercept ShellExecute but i.e. creates registry entries temporarily? If yes then I must agree with you (and throw it away).

Sure. Registry edition.
Thanks for the reply guys.

I actually don't know exactly how everything works with LiberKey - but I do like the functionality.

As for the "total mess" dangers, you might be right, unless LiberKey does a good job of recovering the system state.

File Associasions don't need special permision in User Space - only if you want to change the whole system.

Anyway I'm not one of the maintainers of LiberKey - I did find that the following point:
1. They prefer alot of the software tools the TCUP uses.
2. They have an auto-update mechanism for each software package, even when that specific software doesn't have an auto-update solution.
3. They have an interesting System integration/File Association "trick" for temporary binding the portable application.
4. Upon USB Key eject, the system does go back to it's previous state (so they probably thought about it)
5. They like innovation - just like TCUP maintener
6. Their forum is very active, and the software is still evolving (much like TCUP).

All these points, made me think about TCUP (which I've been using for a very long time now) and how they match together perfectly.

I will keep using them together, and since TCUP and LiberKey are maintained by highly creative people, I though a dialog would do good for both parties.

Maybe I was wrong - maybe there is no openes (at least not in the way of my positive/wishful thinking)

I'm really sorry if I offended someone that much with this suggestion.

I still hope that the maintainer will take a look, and maybe - just maybe find something he likes - or even decide to work with it.

Again, thanks for the input.

Truly Yours
Gal Szkolnik (Lockszmith)
Sorry for double posting, but I did not address any of the original reply from fenixproductions.

especially the licensing issue and portability.

I actually totally agree with you regarding the packaging and personal agreement.

And since my suggestion was to open a dialog between TCUP and LiberyKey groups, what I had in mind, was a TCUP bundle with LiberKey which would not bloat TCUP.

"How can that be done?", you ask?
Well, LiberKey is actually very modular in the way it's built - so there is actually no issue whatsoever (technically I mean) in creating other bundles and "attaching" software from it's repository.

So you're still using the same software TCUP was using up-till-now (and only that software), but with the LiberKey mechanisms - especially the auto-update part, which suites TCUP (in my opinion at least).

No need to bloat the TCUP installation with MBs of irrelevant software.

And with the LiberKey mechanis adding software bundles with auto-update support from their site is as easy as pie.

Portability: Don't force anyone for using software that won't necessarily work for them, but don't limit it either.
The beauty of the LiberKey suites, is that apart of the LiberKey essentials - those parts that make LiberKey work the way it does, all other software is optional, and anyone can build their own flavor of the package.
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